Retribution and PvP

If the flavor of this particular addition to my blog seems slightly off, it's because it was written originally in the Damage Dealer forums, and I'm way too damn lazy to rewrite it just to repost it.


Right now, Retribution is mocked for being "Faceroll". We have buttons that do damage, or make people stop moving for a while so that we can do more damage.

That's more or less Retribution's offensive capabilities in a nutshell.

As for our Defensive utilities, we are quite blessed with plenty of defensive utility. The problem is, this defensive utility is [i]really[/i] only beneficial for double DPS in 2's, and cleave 2's.

Double DPS is kind of a joke, and cleave teams get roflstomped by well played RMP. Sure, Cleave does well against lesser skilled players, but it's really kind of lame that as a Ret, I'm only geared towards beating up the cripple kids, so to speak.


Now, I know that Retribution is having it's combat system reworked so that it won't be so much "Faceroll-->Damage-->Hope RNG Happens". The only problem is, that's all I know.

Our best method for catching up to a kiting player is Hand of Freedom, which has been nerfed fairly heavily. When given to a character balanced around [i]not[/i] having Hand of Freedom, it's really devastating. The added mobility on a Death Knight, Warrior, Rogue, etc is terrifying. But, for Retribution, it's really all we have.

The way that Retribution is currently forced to operate is to keep our self, and our partner(s), alive long enough to get onto a target together for a few seconds. In those few seconds, we unload our burst, pray for the Mace Stun Gods to smile upon us, and if they don't, jump back to staying alive long enough for another chance at RNG.

If we don't get our crit string, we won't kill anything that has even a moderately intelligent healer. As I explain to my friends -- if I get onto my target, I have one chance to kill them, and that chance is heavily influenced by RNG. Two things have to happen: Crits have to happen, and heals cannot happen. I have no MS, so the heals will land at full strength. Therefor, my target must die instantly, or not at all. That's not fun for me, and it's not fun for my targets.

Now, a couple things have happened that make this less likely to occur. Hand of Freedom being nerfed means that I have less uptime on my target, and therefor fewer attacks landing, lessening the chance of RNG kills.

Eye for an Eye means being nerfed isn't quite so large, so much as just being demoralizing. However, the less damage my opponent is taking from attacking me, the more I have to do to him to make up for it -- which means relying on an additional crit to land to finish them off.

The Hammer of Justice nerf is a nerf to our ability to kill a fellow Paladin or a Mage, being that we can no longer lock these classes out of Holy/Arcane by waiting for a Holy Light or Polymorph to Hammer, and a nerf to killing healers in general.

Vindication's nerf means having to do even more damage to our target if they are topped off between attacks -- as there's a larger pool to absorb the damage we're throwing out.

I'm just fearful for the Retribution tree in PvP. In PvE we're okay, albeit being fairly low on the meters. Though, this is largely in part to our damage being burst oriented -- higher damage in PvE means better burst in PvP, making us far more faceroll. Hopefully, the combat mechanics changing will fix this.

Only being able to kill an enemy via obscene burst leading to obscene burst is akin to a comment made earlier by Ghostcrawler -- "While a 10% chance to deal 2000 damage and a 1% chance to deal 20,000 damage are both balanced, the 1% chance to deal 20,000 damage isn't very fun for either party." Though, not quite verbatim as I can't remember it word for word, that was the general message.

The only problem is that our burst will now happen less often, and to a less lethal degree, but it's still all we have. With the combat change, our burst will be forced into requiring a set-up so that it can be prevented -- a good change. My worry is that because we have so much defensive utility, that we will not be receiving offensive utility. Not only would there be so much "OMGWTF GC, UR GIVEENG RETZ MS?" or "WTF RET HAZ INTUREPT?!??!!1/?" that the forums would explode, but I worry that the developers are pushing us towards an "Offensive Support" role. It's just that our support is on fairly heavy cooldowns, and still can be fairly easily shut down. Heals can be interrupted and cut down by MS, hands can be purged or blasted through via magic, and we have no real CC available to us short of a Repentance --> Hammer of Justice chain every two minutes. (Trinket can negate the CC chain every two minutes.)

[i]Bloody character limit...[/i]

[u][b]TL;DR[/b][/u]
So, I guess to summarize, I know that Retribution does okay -- but it will never perform at higher levels of PvP unless the skill cap is raised via offensive utility (Low cooldown snares/roots for peeling, or an interrupt on a decent cooldown, etc) and a larger array of cooldowns (Preferably a few oriented to offensive uses). After our DPS is flattened out, of course. Having three eviscerates on 6 - 10 second cooldowns just can't be balanced for PvE and PvP at the same time.
[b][u]END TL;DR[/b][/u]

Oh, and if I missed something, point it out. This was kind of just written on the fly.

By the way, the above reasons might also be why Casters generally aren't performing well. Casters have fewer cooldowns in comparison to Retribution, and all of their "6 - 10 second eviscerates" have cast times that can be shut down. Their cooldowns are generally offensive, though, so not only are they squishy, but they're unable to retreat effectively from situations where their squishyness(Yes, squishyness. Screw you, spell check.) can be exploited. Glass cannons in PvP will always just get trained to death. )= (See; Warlocks, Arcane Mages, Elemental Shaman, Balance Druids, etc).

Below is just a few questions that I've posted in the Damage Dealer forums, and under the Paladin Q&A thread.

[b][u]Questions:[/b][/u]

Are you able to discuss any of the specifics of the current ideas that Blizzard is beginning to zero in on for Retribution's new combat mechanics? If so, what are some ideas being discussed? (AMGWTFBBQANDMASHEDPOTATOES YOU PROMISED GC!!11!one!11!eleventyone!1)

If Blizzard can discuss these ideas, would y'all up in the big room like feedback on the ideas? If the ideas cannot be discussed yet, is Blizzard still looking for prospective ideas from the community?

What is the general feel that Blizzard would like to see in Retribution, outside of our support role? High damage/Support has worked moderately well, but at higher levels of skill Retribution caps out too quickly in a high intensity-group PvP environment (Arenas) as our toolbox is uncomfortably small at times. Do the developers feel this is being addressed with the upcoming changes?

With the removal of our immediate burst, will Retribution be seeing the addition of any form of offensive utility in order to remove the requirement that our kills to be instantaneous in order for them to happen?

[i]PvE-Related[/i]Will Retribution be able to see a DPS boost in PvE with the changing of our damage from bursts with downtime to a steady stream of damage with occasional burst?

[i]Back to PvP...[/i] Will the 'occasional burst' be able to be called upon on demand with the change to our mechanics? If so, will it be done in the style of a set-up for the finale (Combo Points-->Eviscerate, Diseases/Runic Power -->Scourge/Frost Strike Spam, Frost Nova --> Frostbolt+Ice Lance+Ice Lance) , or additional cooldowns (Bladestorm, Summon Gargoyle, Avenging Wrath, Arcane Power)?